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Australia in the World: Episode 32

23 Oct 2019
By Dr Darren Lim and Allan Gyngell AO FAIIA
Morrison and Xi at G20 summit, Source: Adam Taylor / PMO

On this week’s episode, Allan and Darren look to have a broader discussion about China, anchoring the conversation around Allan’s recent article in Australian Foreign Affairs, “History hasn’t ended: How to handle China”.

On the larger and longer term questions surrounding the Australia-China relationship, Allan argues that Australia indeed has an effective but under-appreciated way of approaching China, to weigh up interests and values and use those interests and values as stakes in our relationship with the PRC: foreign policy. Attempting to avoid the risk of engaging in what Prime Minister Morrison would term “over-analysis”, Allan and Darren discuss whether China is “different” to other great powers, if commentators are “overexcited” when it comes to China and what, if anything, the Australian government needs to do differently. Recorded on 21 October 2019, Allan and Darren also continue their recent history of disagreements in a discussion about free speech, China and the National Basketball Association.


We invite our listeners to email us: We welcome feedback, requests and suggestions. You can also contact Darren on twitter @limdarrenj

We thank AIIA intern James Hayne for his help with research and audio editing, XC Chong for research assistance, and Martyn Pearce for technical support in studio. As always, we’re grateful to Rory Stenning for composing our theme music.

Relevant Links

Allan Gyngell, “History hasn’t ended: How to handle China” in the October 2019 issue of Australian Foreign Affairs:

Roland Rajah, Alexandre Dayant, Jonathan Pryke, “Ocean of debt? Belt and Road and debt diplomacy in the Pacific”, Lowy Institute Analysis, 21 October 2019:

Adam Gopnik, “A thousand small sanities”, publisher page:

Yesterday (film), IMDB page: